Cherry Pie FAIL
In this monthly series, I commit to cooking whatever is on the cover of Bon Appetit, Saveur or maybe some other food magazine. Thereโs a reason these particular dishes are on the cover โ theyโre usually (but not this month!) the best recipes in the magazine.
The cover of the June issue of Bon Appetit had a big ol’ cherry pie on the front. I am obsessed with fresh cherries – they usually don’t make it into any baked goods, because I’ve been known to demolish a 3 pound box of them in a few days, using only my mouth. I decided to give baking with cherries a whirl this month, and the results were disastrous. Basically, the filling was completely liquid, like a cherry soup surrounded by crust. Help me figure out what went wrong, won’t you?
Here are some deviations I made from the original recipe, as published in Bon Appetit:
- I used store-bought, refrigerated pie crust instead of making their homemade version, because I’m pie crust lazy.
- I used sweet cherries instead of the sour cherries that were called for, because that was what was available to me.
- I increased the amount of lime zest, because I was intrigued by adding lime flavor to a cherry pie, and figured that even more lime flavor would be even better.
Other variables:
- I don’t like baked fruit pies, and rarely make them or eat them. Usually, one slice of apple pie on Thanksgiving is my limit. So, I’m definitely not what you would call “well versed” in the pie making arena. Still, I had planned to give my Dad a few pieces of this pie for his 60th birthday, so I went for it anyway.
- This pie was not baked with love. I started way too late in the evening, the cherries took forever to pit, and I had to stay up far past my bedtime to wait for this sucker to bake.
- I used a Pi plate instead of a standard, boring pie dish. Maybe the mathematics gods were angry.
- Baking time: The Bon Appetit recipe called for a minimum of 80 minutes baking time, and a maximum of 90, or until “crust is deep golden brown.” My crust was what I would consider deep golden brown after 72 minutes, so I pulled it.
- Oven temperature: My oven is accurate to within 5 degrees, as I have an oven thermometer I place in there to test it with occasionally.
Of these factors, I believe that store-bought crust, increased lime zest, not liking pie, using a Pi plate and oven temperature were non-issues in the filling not thickening properly. Not being baked with love could have been a minor factor, as I know from experience that food made when you’re in a bad mood never turns out as well as food made when you’re happy to be in the kitchen.
I believe the biggest variable was that I used sweet cherries instead of sour cherries. Knowing that my cherries would be sweeter than what was called for, I *thought* about decreasing the sugar in the recipe, but decided to use the amount called for, even if that meant a too-sweet pie, for fear of the filling not thickening enough with decreased sugar. I’m wondering if sweet cherries are just much, much juicier than sweet?
I’m also wondering if I had baked this pie longer, would the filling have thickened? Perhaps, but I honestly can’t see an extra 8 or 18 minutes of baking time making that big of a difference. All fruit pies seem liquidy when you pull them out of the oven, but then they firm up as they cool. It seems impossible to know how much a pie will firm up.
Where do YOU think I went wrong here? Don’t be shy! I’d love to hear your thought as to why this pie was an epic failure.
Note: One of my biggest pet peeves is when people make a recipe they see online, but with changes and substitutions, and then leave a negative review on it, anyway. So this is NOT a negative review of Bon Appetit’s recipe. I flat-out didn’t follow the instructions, and used sweet cherries instead of sour. I have nobody to blame but myself.
Testing author comment
If it makes you feel better, I just tried making the pie. I made the crust as per the instructions and used sour cherries and it was also a watery mess.
Oh no, Jennie! I’m sorry to hear you have a watery pie, too ๐ I think Bon Appetit needs to do a few more rounds of testing on this one…
And this is why I do not bake. There would be no love or patience in my baked goods. None. Kudos to you for the effort and I hope you saved the pie by eating it with ice cream! Either way, I’m diggin’ your photos and love the cherry napkins and pi plate!
Thanks, Amy. We’re not bakers. But I think we’re both still pretty cool ๐
I’ve found that tapioca works much better as a thickening agent for fruit pies. Don’t get the pearl tapioca. Follow the directions on the box. I mix it with the sugar before adding both to the fruit.
Thanks for the tip, Vivienne! I’ll definitely have to give tapioca a try!
Lori, I have nothing to add to everyone else’s comments here. This sounds exactly like something that could happen to me (baking late at night, crust browning too soon, frustration and therefore a decided LACK of love in the baking). All I can say is scoop the filling out and eat it with ice cream (yuuuummmmโฆ) I feel ya, girl – I’d hate to waste all that time, energy and money on ingredients.
Done and done! My Cherry Pie Ice Cream turned out quite well ๐
All of us have had kitchen fails. One even called hers food for the gods – “food for the dogs”, lol. So don’t worry too much about it. If it’s just the shape but taste is still great, then nothing was really put to waste ๐
Julie
Gourmet Getaways
Haha, love that saying, Julie!
I absolutely LOVE you posted this- in fact you inspired me to post a fail too!!
So glad to hear that, Sophia! Let’s celebrate our occasional fails ๐
Yeah, I’m now remembering that whenever we made cherry pies in school, we brought the mixture to a boil on the stove first to activate the cornstarch, THEN baked. I think if Bon Appetit wants to publish a recipe where you just toss the cherries with cornstarch before baking, they should note that it needs to come to a boil in the oven. Because honestly, I had totally forgotten that whole “cornstarch needs to boil” thing until I was thinking about it the next morning. Oh well. I’ll try again when I get some sour cherries!
I agree, they shouldn’t assume people will just know (or remember :P) that. You got this.
Do you know my daughter, Stephie, from Eat Your Heart Out? She made a sweet cherry pie earlier this year. We have a technique that helps A LOT when it comes to making your pies non runny. Check out her site and search for sweet cherry pie. Also, when it comes to fruit pies, they can be tricky, because you just don’t know how juicy the fruit is. It’s all about the thickener and the sugar. The sugar will make the fruit juicier, and I’m betting that’s what it is. I don’t know what quantity you used, but that is probably what happened. As far as eating it? I would have poured it over ice cream and gone for it. We all have failures in the kitchen. ๐
I’ll definitely check out Stephie’s recipe, thanks so much Julie! I think fresh fruit pies are just finnicky, but I guess that’s part of the fun, right? ๐
I suppose so! haha! Sometimes, it’s just a guessing game as to how juicy the berries/fruit are. I will say that this technique has really, really helped a lot. And hey–it keeps us humble. ๐
I love this kind of stuff Lori! I would say I agree with the stuntman. A few more minutes would have probably helped. Cornstarch needs to come up to a boil to thicken. Did you see bubbles? Its possible the your store-bought crust browned faster than their home-made recipe. Also from the Bon Ap photo it looks like the juice is very loose as it is. If you were to try it again, and I doubt you would ha ha, I would go up to a quarter cup of cornstarch.
Yeah, I think when I pulled it, it might have *just* started to bubble slightly, so it never got to that full boil for the cornstarch to activate. I should have known better, but just wasn’t thinking that way at the time, you know? I also think you’re right about the store-bought crust browning more quickly than homemade. SO many variables when it comes to making pie, wow!
Okay, this is my experience (and I’ve been a pie making fool for 20 years). Sour vs. Sweet – you can decrease the sugar. There’s more because the sugar difference in the cherries themselves is immense, I don’t think that would have been the culprit.
Baking time – yes, I would guess that was most likely it. IF you don’t cook the filling beforehand, you have to give it time to bubble and thicken (just as you would a sauce on the stove – same principle). Although I do use the mix and dump method for apple pies, when I use berries and cherries, I like to thicken them on the stovetop first (bring it to a boil, then simmer for 4-5 minutes) and dump them into the crust…I think it works best – because then you KNOW how thick it will be (especially if you’ve made it in advance and cooled it first).
I like to use quick-cooking tapioca instead of cornstarch, but occasionally I will use cornstarch in its place (if I’m out). I tend to go with a ratio of 2 lbs cherries to 1/4 cup thickener. It can vary for different fruits, though.
Anyhoo…I hope you don’t let this discourage you…go pie! ๐
I’m definitely in the “add it to ice cream or popsicles” school.
My husband disagrees on the pie shake. He says Piemonade (like in the Strong Bad Emails) http://www.homestarrunner.com/sbemail111.html
Hehehe. Nice one.
Ahhhh I feel your pain. I made a strawberry pie that similarly failed yesterday as well. It was so juicy and runny I almost cried. I do love the ideas below on making ice cream.
Oh, boo. I use Martha Stewart’s recipe for Strawberry Icebox Pie, and it’s a good one: http://www.marthastewart.com/336963/strawberry-icebox-pie
I haven’t baked a pie in years, and even when I did bake them I didn’t do it very often. But I would be really surprised if your cherry substitution was the problem. If that was the problem, then it must be that sour cherries have more pectin than sweet ones. It seems to me that a good recipe would tell you ‘do not substitute’ if that was really an issue. And I’m not altogether certain that you can predict how a pie will turn out. Even when you cook other things for the specified length of time, they don’t always thicken up the way they are supposed to – in my experience.
As for ideas, looking at your recipe for dark chocolate & dried cherry oatmeal cookies gave me an idea for making some overnight oats. That is definitely a place where you could use this cherry filling if you happen to like overnight oats. Or putting it in regular oatmeal as you cook it. (I make a nice black forest oatmeal, for example.)
My final thought is that you do so many things well, unless there is a specific reason you NEED to do a cherry pie well, don’t worry about this. I know that’s easier for me to say than for you to do, but we all sometimes have to be humanโฆ ๐
I was thinking about the pectin differences between the two types, Susan! I think that could have been a big factor.
Love your overnight oats idea. Black forest oatmeal sounds amazing! What a treat in the morning. And I’m with you – I am not stressing one little bit about this. Baking will NEVER be my strength in the kitchen, and I’m totally fine with that.
I’m glad we’re thinking alike here! I’ve come up with what I’ll try for the overnight oats: ยฝ cup rolled oats, ยฝ cup almond milk, 1/16 cup dried cherries, 1 scoop chocolate protein powder (Designer Whey), 1T unsweetened cocoa powder, 1T chia seeds, ยฝ t vanilla extract, ยฝ t cinnamon. I’m planning to try this tonight, and I’ll let you know (if I rememberโฆ) how it turns out. This is for a single serving.
By the way, I’m really glad to have encountered someone whose specialty is not bakingโฆ ๐ Because I am watching what I eat closely, I can’t afford to go crazy with baking or similar treats.
The black forest oatmeal, as I make it: 4 servings
2 cups rolled oats, 4 scoops chocolate protein powder (Designer Whey), 1 T unsweetened cocoa powder, โ cup dried cherries chopped coarsely, 4 cups water, ยผ cup ground flaxseed, ยผ t almond extract.
Mix all ingredients together in a 3 qt. saucepan. Heat over medium heat until bubbling; turn heat down to low and cook, stirring frequently, until thick – 5-10 minus. Remove from heat; add almond extract and stir to mix thoroughly. (I like to pour ยฝ cup almond milk over it.)
Enjoy!
Susan
Thanks so much, Susan! Printing this out and trying it!
Tried the overnight oats and they came out very nice. The only thing I’d do differently is to add just a little sugar, like maybe ยฝ teaspoon, to make the chocolate flavor richer.
Mmmmm. Glad to hear they turned out great. That’s awesome, Susan!
Definitely the crust. And you might find that you like pies after learning to make a good crust. Tiredness certainly a factor, too! Sweet cherries instead of sour, another important factor. But, it’s hard to know for sure without seeing the original recipe why it came out soupy. Was there any thickener (tapioca or cornstarch) in the original recipe? Also, possibly, from what I’ve read, the tart cherries would be less juicy.
Karen, you think the crust was a factor in the filling not thickening, or just a factor to the pie not being that great in general? The original recipe can be found here: http://www.bonappetit.com/recipe/sour-cherry-pie
There was 3 tablespoons of cornstarch for 3 pounds of cherries. I think it needed a bit more cornstarch.
No, the crust shouldn’t effect thickening, but it certainly affects flavor. And, while I like the idea of almond flour in the crust, I NEVER use eggs in a pie crust. Nor do I knead it. Taught by my ‘aunt’ (everyone called her aunt) an elderly woman who lived next door when I was growing up (after my mother died, she made us a pie every Saturday for our Sunday dinner) ) you can’t make a crust too short (don’t skimp on your shortening, but I have overdone it ๐ ), refrigerate the water, and don’t over work the dough once the ice water is added. Roll only from the middle out, not back & forth as for pizza or bread dough. Develops the gluten and makes it tough (cardboard-y). And from some further reading, I suspect that the sweet cherries are ‘juicier’ (and that’s part of why they’re so enjoyable) so hence the soupy pie
There shouldn’t be any real difference between the sweet cherries versus sour ones texture-wise. The soupy factor has to do with the thickening agents, if you will, or lack thereof. More sugar or, really, more flour/cornstarch would make that filling more curd-like and less syrupy. I have that magazine, too. I might have a cherry-pie in my future this weekend.
Yep, I think this recipe definitely needed a tad more cornstarch. Thanks for chiming in, Camilla!
$19!!!! I feel your pain. I vote ice cream ๐
Ugh, seriously. Living in a state that prides itself on being the “Cherry Capital of the World,” I was surprised at the cost. But, pretty sure these weren’t Michigan cherries, as those aren’t quite in season yet.
I think dish wise math was on your side. It does look like 10-15 minutes more might have helped, the bottom still looks under and there are a few patches still pretty under on the top. Also corn starch is a fairly frail thickener. If it has to thicken during a long cooking in the oven rather than the stove where you can constantly monitor it I wouldn’t risk playing with other ingredients for an expensive dish.
Thanks for the input, Nora ๐ We all know food magazines play tricks with their food styling, but I have a REALLY hard time believing Bon Appetit’s cover pie was in the oven any longer than mine was – it’s even lighter brown than mine! Oh well. Making a batch of ice cream tonight, and stirring this failure into it! haha.
So I called my mother in law, who is a pie making machine. She told me that you use sour cherries for the same reason that you use granny smith apples rather than gala or honeycrisp. The lower sugar content in the sour cherries (or tart apples) allows them to hold their shape better since the natural juices won’t leach out in the heat (something about sugar content in the pie as a whole is unrelated to sugar content in the fruit itself).
She also mentioned that thickners like cornstarch are really important in fruit pies, and they take an overly long time to set. She oscillates between adding extra cornstarch or tapioca, letting the fruit rest (sprinkled in sugar) on a paper towel for about 30 minutes, and not caring and making runny pies.
Also, I am with litteredkitchen on making a shake. And if you have too much shake, freeze it and make posicles treats!
You’re so nice to call your MIL for me, Hannah ๐ The apple comparison makes perfect sense. I ONLY use Granny Smiths in apple pie, for that reason. I should have known I couldn’t substitute a different type of cherry. Oops.
Sounds like cornstarch really does take an overly long time to set a pie. Shoot! If I would have baked that thing much longer, the crust would have been hard as a rock. Shakes it is. And I love the popsicle idea!
The ice cream sounds awesome. And honestly, I would probably eat it as is, warmed up with a big ol scoop of ice cream on top. As far as issues goes…baking time *might* have been a factor…it’s crazy to me to think that the different cherry would make such a big difference! I love that you outright said this was “not baked with love.” I know exactly what you mean, and there definitely is a difference!
Haha. If I would have written up a recipe, step 1 would have been “Proceed with love.”
Did the recipe call for cornstarch??? That’s what would’ve thickened the juices while baking, but I’m sure you know that. Honestly, I always use Pillsbury pie crusts. I have used canned cherries in their juice, fresh cherries that I pitted myself (which I will never do again) and don’t use recipe for any fruit pies. Just add cornstarch, sugar to taste and a dash of fresh lemon or lime juice and throw in a pat of butter, and my pies always come out great. I’ve also made fresh blueberry and apple pies this way.
Yes, the recipe called for cornstarch, but just 3 tablespoons of it for 3 pounds of cherries. Does that seem like enough to you? There was no other flour or any other type of thickening agent.
3-4 tablespoons should’ve been enough. It was definitely the fresh cherries! When I used jarred sour cherries in their natural juice, I only used 1 cup of their juice with 4 tbsp of cornstarch and cooked it on the stove with the sugar to thicken it. Then poured it over the cherries. I will usually cook the fruit (apples and cherries) in a 9″ skillet with butter or juice and sugar. With the blueberry pie, I just tossed them with the cornstarch and sugar, turned out perfect. Has to be the high water content of cherries. Been an interesting discussion. Thanks, I learned something ๐ Sorry about your pie. FYI I go to places like Big Lots or Job Lot (New England chain) and find great imported products like the sour cherries in their natural juice in jars for low prices. They make great winter pies when I can’t get good fresh fruits. I don’t like using “prepared” products like the Comstock brand, too processed, too much sugar and too expensive!
So, the thing about cornstarch it that it has to come to a boil to activate the thickening powers. I made a few cherry pies in culinary school, and we always cooked it on the stove first, like you mentioned. When the filling came to a boil, it would thicken, THEN we would put it in a crust to bake. Still, I think the high water content of these sweet cherries was the main culprit here. Oh well, live and learn!
Those imported sour cherries sound great. I’ll have to keep an eye out for those, and give this pie another try ๐
Aw, but it looks so pretty! I don’t like fruit pies either & know nothing about baking them. That being said, I think it was def the lack of love that did it in.
I am definitely NOT somebody who owns a “Baked With Love” apron. HAHAHA.
Thank you for the mention! It just so happens that I have a copy of that issue in front of me and am looking at the recipe. Baking is so technical which is why I do it so infrequently. First off, if you were using sweet cherries, I can see why you increased the amount of the lime zest (need to balance out the flavors).
If your oven temperature is correct, that extra baking time might have made the difference. The recipe notes to cover the pie with foil if the crust is browning too quickly. Judging by your description, I’m assuming you left the pie at room temperature overnight to let it cool (which I would imagine would allow the filling to thicken too).
The other issue you need to consider is that you’re being too hard on yourself because the pic they published on the cover (above) demonstrates that their filling was a watery mess too.
Yep, maybe it really did need that extra baking time. I covered the crust with a foil tent after just the first 25 minutes, because the crust was already brown. So maybe covering it that early meant that none of the liquid could evaporate in the oven? I hadn’t considered that until now.
I did leave it out to cool overnight, but no thickening happened! And you’re right, I’m too hard on myself. Actually, I’m just bummed that this happened with fresh cherries – they are my favorite fruit!
Argh!
What about taking the cherries, draining them, getting some tart shells, baking them, add the cherries into the baked and cooled tart shells and topping with a little scoop of vanilla (soft serve) ice cream with a cherry on top right before serving?
That sounds perfect, Kim! Pretty sure nobody would be able to tell it used to be a failed pie. Love it!
Well, if it’s any consolation, the pie still looks impressive! I’ve never tried baking a pie with sweet cherries, but my inclination is to think that they’re considerably juicier than tart. That said, when I baked a pie with fresh tart cherries, it was somewhat soupy, too…
Thanks CakePantsI don’t know if I’ve ever even SEEN fresh tart cherries for sale around here. In Michigan, seems like it’s always Michigan (sweet) cherries for sale.
I searched and searched last year, but to no avail! It was actually back when I lived in Philly that I stumbled across some at a farmers market. The Produce Station has assured me that they’ll have some in August, though!
I’ll be sure to drop by the Produce Station later this summer, then. I seem to always cruise through there when I’m in Ann Arbor ๐
Hey ladies, I hate to barge in, but I wanted to tell you that Michigan sour cherries are available fresh for a VERY short window. I grew up in Michigan and still live just over the border. Cherries are my favorite fruit in the world. Sour cherry pies are my favorite pies in the world. SO… mid-July. They go FAST! I watch a local orchard like a hawk (and my farmers market) and buy them up like a madwoman once they’re for sale. I pit and freeze pounds upon pounds of them, and still run out.
But…there you go, watch for them within the next month! ๐
Sweet, thanks for the info, Heather! I’ve probably always been on vacay or busy with something else for the short time they’re available. But this year, I’m going to watch for them like a hawk! I want some!
I’m telling you blend it with ice cream to make a shake! Give it your dad, I bet he will still be happy. As for the fails – I don’t make enough pies either to give you expert advice. I doubt it was the store bought pie dough, plenty of people use them. Or the Pi plate, that’s just awesome. Perhaps the cherries? Maybe there is more water content in sweet ones than tart?
I’m pretty sure it must be the cherries, Susan! Dad got a free slice of key lime pie at his birthday dinner last night, so I didn’t feel so guilty. Key lime is kind of better, anyway ๐